Discussion:
The failure of the WScUg (Re: Scanner for you?)
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David Cuenca Tudela
2017-05-08 07:13:31 UTC
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Hi all,

I want to thank Carles for offering the scanner back to our community. In
the Wikisource Community User Group sometimes believed that by creating an
upper international organization, we would be able to affect the things
happening at the base of our movement and at the top. But that has proved
not to be true.

The Wikisource Community User Group has failed to make a change in the
world, and it is a pity, because we all seemed to share an understanding
that our project would be very relevant for humanity.

However, I have the strong feeling, and conviction that the approach we
followed so far was totally wrong. And I want to acknowledge that general
feeling. It is painful to accept, but to accept it will allow us to do
things better in the future by relying more on the knowledge accumulated by
chapters and thematic organizations about how to make things work.

As a co-promoter (with Aubrey) of the WSCUg, I want to apologize for not
being able to see this potential failure before. I hope that we all can
agree that we are all humans and that we are allowed to make mistakes. Even
if they are big ones. The intention was good, the result not so good.

Sorry about that.

Thanks for believing in the international wikisource community, a bunch of
hyper-idealists following a crazy librarian's dream of a universal
knowledge library... Let's take this impact, but let's keep trying. Every
time with more force. I am totally convinced that together we can make it.

Please, do provide input about how to reach our aspirations.

Cheers,
Micru
Thanks for this update on the DIY scanner projects.
https://archive.org/details/bibliotecammb586
Only one? Or do you mean all the 89 items in
https://archive.org/details/bibliotecammb ?
people from the museum weren't comfortable working with it, since it was
very different from the scanners they used in the past.
Interesting. Is there a description, even on the DIY scanner forums, of
what differences were most impactful for them?
Nemo
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Nicolas VIGNERON
2017-05-08 13:03:47 UTC
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Hi David,

{{citation needed}} :P

More seriously, I don't think that the WScUg has really failed. Sure, it
runs slower right now and it can be improved but the group has accomplished
some pretty awesome things (especially the wikisource conference in Wien
which was awesome and resulted in the hiring of Sam Wilson by the WMF, etc.)

Maybe we can discuss this during the next monthly WScUg Google Hangout?

Cdlt, ~nicolas
Andrea Zanni
2017-05-08 16:46:49 UTC
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I'm out for the day and will have a call with David tonight, but i agree
with Vigneron: from the start, the usergroup was just a "label" that we, as
a community, invented to get more attention from wmf, chapters and glam.
Also, it provides an umbrella for the sparse and international wikisource
community: it is obvious to me that the ug is effective and active as much
as we are personally effective and active. I personallycontinue to talk
about wikisource in every wikimedia occasion i have. It's not much, but
it's slowly increasing awareness about us.also we havenow a great
opportunity to discuss azbout wikisource in the new strategy process:
unfortunately, very few of us took the chance to express their opinions
here, or even in their local community. I think this is still the greatest
occasion we have.

Il 08/mag/2017 15:03, "Nicolas VIGNERON" <***@gmail.com> ha
scritto:

Hi David,

{{citation needed}} :P

More seriously, I don't think that the WScUg has really failed. Sure, it
runs slower right now and it can be improved but the group has accomplished
some pretty awesome things (especially the wikisource conference in Wien
which was awesome and resulted in the hiring of Sam Wilson by the WMF, etc.)

Maybe we can discuss this during the next monthly WScUg Google Hangout?

Cdlt, ~nicolas
Sam Wilson
2017-05-09 00:51:30 UTC
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I don't think the WSUG has failed! It's still a great focal point for
Wikisource discussions and activity. I talk about it whenever I can.
I guess in some ways you're right though. For example, in the recent
blog post
https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/05/03/world-book-copyright-day/ about
how much "WIkipedia loves books" there was no mention of Wikisource. So
there's still a way to go in raising Wikisource to the level of general
consciousness (in people, I mean, not some self-aware book transcribing
AI). But slowly, we get somewhere. I keep having conversations with
people who haven't heard of Wikisource—but who now have, and who usually
think it sounds good.
I'm happy to be slow and steady. I strive to one day over-take Project
Gutenberg! ;)
Post by David Cuenca Tudela
Hi all,
I want to thank Carles for offering the scanner back to our community.
In the Wikisource Community User Group sometimes believed that by
creating an upper international organization, we would be able to
affect the things happening at the base of our movement and at the
top. But that has proved not to be true.>
The Wikisource Community User Group has failed to make a change in the
world, and it is a pity, because we all seemed to share an
understanding that our project would be very relevant for humanity.>
However, I have the strong feeling, and conviction that the approach
we followed so far was totally wrong. And I want to acknowledge that
general feeling. It is painful to accept, but to accept it will allow
us to do things better in the future by relying more on the knowledge
accumulated by chapters and thematic organizations about how to make
things work.>
As a co-promoter (with Aubrey) of the WSCUg, I want to apologize for
not being able to see this potential failure before. I hope that we
all can agree that we are all humans and that we are allowed to make
mistakes. Even if they are big ones. The intention was good, the
result not so good.>
Sorry about that.
Thanks for believing in the international wikisource community, a
bunch of hyper-idealists following a crazy librarian's dream of a
universal knowledge library... Let's take this impact, but let's keep
trying. Every time with more force. I am totally convinced that
together we can make it.>
Please, do provide input about how to reach our aspirations.
Cheers,
Micru
On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 8:32 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo)
https://archive.org/details/bibliotecammb586>>
Only one? Or do you mean all the 89 items in
https://archive.org/details/bibliotecammb ?
people from the museum weren't comfortable working with it, since it
was very different from the scanners they used in the past.>>
Interesting. Is there a description, even on the DIY scanner forums,
of what differences were most impactful for them?>>
Nemo
_______________________________________________
Wikisource-l mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
--
Etiamsi omnes, ego non
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David Cuenca Tudela
2017-05-09 04:11:48 UTC
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Guys,

Thanks for sharing your positive outlook with me!

If nothing else the community has worked in an unexpected way. I was able
to express my worries and concerns to all of you, and I was reasurred with
potential event chains that are not as grim as I had envisioned at first.

I feel grateful for your support. Specially to Aubrey, who heard me nagging
about the world yesterday night instead of enjoying his pizza Margarita
fully :)

Please keep me posted about Wikicite. I am really looking forward to new
ideas and approaches to all the big challenges that we are facing.

If one thing we have Wikisourcerors in common is that we are big dreamers,
and if we dream together I am sure we can reach even further.

Cheers to big dreams! :)
Micru
Post by Sam Wilson
I don't think the WSUG has failed! It's still a great focal point for
Wikisource discussions and activity. I talk about it whenever I can.
I guess in some ways you're right though. For example, in the recent blog
post https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/05/03/world-book-copyright-day/
about how much "WIkipedia loves books" there was no mention of Wikisource.
So there's still a way to go in raising Wikisource to the level of general
consciousness (in people, I mean, not some self-aware book transcribing
AI). But slowly, we get somewhere. I keep having conversations with people
who haven't heard of Wikisource—but who now have, and who usually think it
sounds good.
I'm happy to be slow and steady. I strive to one day over-take Project
Gutenberg! ;)
Hi all,
I want to thank Carles for offering the scanner back to our community. In
the Wikisource Community User Group sometimes believed that by creating an
upper international organization, we would be able to affect the things
happening at the base of our movement and at the top. But that has proved
not to be true.
The Wikisource Community User Group has failed to make a change in the
world, and it is a pity, because we all seemed to share an understanding
that our project would be very relevant for humanity.
However, I have the strong feeling, and conviction that the approach we
followed so far was totally wrong. And I want to acknowledge that general
feeling. It is painful to accept, but to accept it will allow us to do
things better in the future by relying more on the knowledge accumulated by
chapters and thematic organizations about how to make things work.
As a co-promoter (with Aubrey) of the WSCUg, I want to apologize for not
being able to see this potential failure before. I hope that we all can
agree that we are all humans and that we are allowed to make mistakes. Even
if they are big ones. The intention was good, the result not so good.
Sorry about that.
Thanks for believing in the international wikisource community, a bunch of
hyper-idealists following a crazy librarian's dream of a universal
knowledge library... Let's take this impact, but let's keep trying. Every
time with more force. I am totally convinced that together we can make it.
Please, do provide input about how to reach our aspirations.
Cheers,
Micru
Thanks for this update on the DIY scanner projects.
https://archive.org/details/bibliotecammb586
Only one? Or do you mean all the 89 items inhttps://archive.org/details/
bibliotecammb ?
people from the museum weren't comfortable working with it, since it was
very different from the scanners they used in the past.
Interesting. Is there a description, even on the DIY scanner forums, of
what differences were most impactful for them?
Nemo
_______________________________________________
Wikisource-l mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
--
Etiamsi omnes, ego non
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Bodhisattwa Mandal
2017-05-09 04:29:22 UTC
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Hi,

IMHO, WSUG has niether failed, nor it's failing. Yes, it's Wikipedia which
attracts more more attention, like before and many Wikipedians still don't
know what we actually do in Wikisource, which is sometimes frustrating, but
things are changing.

I can talk about what's going on in Indic Wikisource projects. Community
leaders have emerged in Odia and Marathi, who are collaborating with
libraries right now for digitization. Tamils have already collaborated with
Tamil Nadu state Government to release more than 2000 books under CC
license and uploaded them in Commons and may be more. books are going to be
released. Punjabi Wikisource has recently been created, which was a
indirect result of Wikisource Conference in Wien.

For my language, Bengali, we have never got so many active users, as we
have now. A year and a half back, we had only 3-5 active users and now we
have around 30, many of them are exclusive Wikisource editors. We have
already uploaded around 10000 books till now, but couldn't create more than
2500 NS:Index due to lack of volunteers, OCRed 600000 pages, all happened
in just a span of one and a half years. Other stats are rising too. We are
trying to make it as the largest Bengali digital library in next 10 years,
and if everything goes ok, we will do it.

I think, Wikisource community likes to work silently, and that's why all
the amazing works they are doing don't get noticed by the larger community.
We should be present at WMF blog and social media regularly. There is an
official Facebook page of Wikipedia , maintained by a foundation staff, why
not pressurise him to run an official Facebook page for Wikisource, not
only English but for other languages also. That will attract more
volunteers for sure.

We all are doing fine, maybe slowly, but steadily. I am optimistic.

Best regardrs,
I don't think the WSUG has failed! It's still a great focal point for
Wikisource discussions and activity. I talk about it whenever I can.

I guess in some ways you're right though. For example, in the recent blog
post https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/05/03/world-book-copyright-day/ about
how much "WIkipedia loves books" there was no mention of Wikisource. So
there's still a way to go in raising Wikisource to the level of general
consciousness (in people, I mean, not some self-aware book transcribing
AI). But slowly, we get somewhere. I keep having conversations with people
who haven't heard of Wikisource—but who now have, and who usually think it
sounds good.

I'm happy to be slow and steady. I strive to one day over-take Project
Gutenberg! ;)


On Mon, 8 May 2017, at 03:13 PM, David Cuenca Tudela wrote:

Hi all,

I want to thank Carles for offering the scanner back to our community. In
the Wikisource Community User Group sometimes believed that by creating an
upper international organization, we would be able to affect the things
happening at the base of our movement and at the top. But that has proved
not to be true.

The Wikisource Community User Group has failed to make a change in the
world, and it is a pity, because we all seemed to share an understanding
that our project would be very relevant for humanity.

However, I have the strong feeling, and conviction that the approach we
followed so far was totally wrong. And I want to acknowledge that general
feeling. It is painful to accept, but to accept it will allow us to do
things better in the future by relying more on the knowledge accumulated by
chapters and thematic organizations about how to make things work.

As a co-promoter (with Aubrey) of the WSCUg, I want to apologize for not
being able to see this potential failure before. I hope that we all can
agree that we are all humans and that we are allowed to make mistakes. Even
if they are big ones. The intention was good, the result not so good.

Sorry about that.

Thanks for believing in the international wikisource community, a bunch of
hyper-idealists following a crazy librarian's dream of a universal
knowledge library... Let's take this impact, but let's keep trying. Every
time with more force. I am totally convinced that together we can make it.

Please, do provide input about how to reach our aspirations.

Cheers,
Micru

On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 8:32 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

Thanks for this update on the DIY scanner projects.

Carles Paredes Lanau, 07/05/2017 20:18:

You can check the books scanned in the following link:
https://archive.org/details/bibliotecammb586


Only one? Or do you mean all the 89 items inhttps://archive.org/details/
bibliotecammb ?

people from the museum weren't comfortable working with it, since it was
very different from the scanners they used in the past.


Interesting. Is there a description, even on the DIY scanner forums, of
what differences were most impactful for them?

Nemo

_______________________________________________
Wikisource-l mailing list
Wikisource-***@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
--
Etiamsi omnes, ego non
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