Discussion:
WikidataCon 2017
(too old to reply)
Nicolas VIGNERON
2017-10-23 08:30:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi all,

For information, the WikidataCon is this week-end in Berlin. While there is
no talk nominatively around Wikisource, there is some intervention on
relation subjects (inventaire.io, WikiCite, German National Library, FRBR,
and so on).

The event is sold out, but you can follow remotely some of the presentation
(link will be added here :
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikidataCon_2017/Program/Remote ).

I'll be there and I'll be happy to talk about Wikisource, who else will be
there?

Cdlt, ~nicolas
Gerard Meijssen
2017-10-23 09:54:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hoi,
I am actively pushing the inclusion of books that are available from the
Open Library. They will be by authors who are already known to Wikidata and
the books will have either an ISBN or an identifier from for instance the
Library of Congress.

The point to this is that we do not know if readable books are available
from Wikisource. Consequently Wikisource becomes of less relevance to the
Open Library because they DO make it known and knowable what books are
available for readers.
Thanks,
GerardM
Post by Nicolas VIGNERON
Hi all,
For information, the WikidataCon is this week-end in Berlin. While there
is no talk nominatively around Wikisource, there is some intervention on
relation subjects (inventaire.io, WikiCite, German National Library,
FRBR, and so on).
The event is sold out, but you can follow remotely some of the
presentation (link will be added here : https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/
Wikidata:WikidataCon_2017/Program/Remote ).
I'll be there and I'll be happy to talk about Wikisource, who else will be
there?
Cdlt, ~nicolas
_______________________________________________
Wikisource-l mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Andrea Zanni
2017-10-23 10:08:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hello Nicolas,
will you "push" for a particular list of properties/book data model?

Unfortunately from the last Wikicite I did not have the time (and the will)
to restart the conversation on Wikidata about the book model: at Wikicite
Tpt, Sam and other had the chance to work a few hours on it, but I don't
know if some of the suggestions we made have been discussed directly on
Wikidata.

Aubrey
Post by Gerard Meijssen
Hoi,
I am actively pushing the inclusion of books that are available from the
Open Library. They will be by authors who are already known to Wikidata and
the books will have either an ISBN or an identifier from for instance the
Library of Congress.
The point to this is that we do not know if readable books are available
from Wikisource. Consequently Wikisource becomes of less relevance to the
Open Library because they DO make it known and knowable what books are
available for readers.
Thanks,
GerardM
Post by Nicolas VIGNERON
Hi all,
For information, the WikidataCon is this week-end in Berlin. While there
is no talk nominatively around Wikisource, there is some intervention on
relation subjects (inventaire.io, WikiCite, German National Library,
FRBR, and so on).
The event is sold out, but you can follow remotely some of the
presentation (link will be added here : https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/
Wikidata:WikidataCon_2017/Program/Remote ).
I'll be there and I'll be happy to talk about Wikisource, who else will
be there?
Cdlt, ~nicolas
_______________________________________________
Wikisource-l mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
_______________________________________________
Wikisource-l mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
billinghurst
2017-10-23 10:36:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi Nicolas,

Still my biggest issues/hurdles for good data are
capture of information from WS to WD — it just is hard work, WEF tool is
still not sufficiently alignedthe ever problematic inability to link WP
book to WS edition through Wikidatathat cannot capture information for
Wikidata at archive.org, and relate that through to the file at Commons,
and then the edition at Wikisource (or pick another starting point and
interrelate0the inability to create an edition from a book/work, the
inability to create a work from an edition
Maybe you can even ask what we need to improve to get bots to run
through and autocapture, is our meta-data in headers not suitable? What
is it that is problematic?

Thanks for asking.

-- billinghurst (being so remote for the action <sigh>)


------ Original Message ------
From: "Nicolas VIGNERON" <***@gmail.com>
To: "discussion list for Wikisource, the free library"
<wikisource-***@lists.wikimedia.org>
Sent: 23/10/2017 7:30:44 PM
Subject: [Wikisource-l] WikidataCon 2017
Post by Nicolas VIGNERON
Hi all,
For information, the WikidataCon is this week-end in Berlin. While
there is no talk nominatively around Wikisource, there is some
intervention on relation subjects (inventaire.io, WikiCite, German
National Library, FRBR, and so on).
The event is sold out, but you can follow remotely some of the
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikidataCon_2017/Program/Remote ).
I'll be there and I'll be happy to talk about Wikisource, who else will
be there?
Cdlt, ~nicolas
Daniel Mietchen
2017-10-23 10:50:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi all,
I'll be there too and will be keeping notes via
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Daniel_Mietchen/WikidataCon_2017
and tweets.
d.

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 12:36 PM, billinghurst
Post by billinghurst
Hi Nicolas,
Still my biggest issues/hurdles for good data are
capture of information from WS to WD — it just is hard work, WEF tool is
still not sufficiently aligned
the ever problematic inability to link WP book to WS edition through
Wikidata
that cannot capture information for Wikidata at archive.org, and relate that
through to the file at Commons, and then the edition at Wikisource (or pick
another starting point and interrelate0
the inability to create an edition from a book/work, the inability to create
a work from an edition
Maybe you can even ask what we need to improve to get bots to run through
and autocapture, is our meta-data in headers not suitable? What is it that
is problematic?
Thanks for asking.
-- billinghurst (being so remote for the action <sigh>)
------ Original Message ------
To: "discussion list for Wikisource, the free library"
Sent: 23/10/2017 7:30:44 PM
Subject: [Wikisource-l] WikidataCon 2017
Hi all,
For information, the WikidataCon is this week-end in Berlin. While there is
no talk nominatively around Wikisource, there is some intervention on
relation subjects (inventaire.io, WikiCite, German National Library, FRBR,
and so on).
The event is sold out, but you can follow remotely some of the presentation
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikidataCon_2017/Program/Remote ).
I'll be there and I'll be happy to talk about Wikisource, who else will be
there?
Cdlt, ~nicolas
_______________________________________________
Wikisource-l mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Andy Mabbett
2017-10-23 10:55:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by billinghurst
Still my biggest issues/hurdles for good data are
that cannot capture information for Wikidata at archive.org
That much is solved: You can use Zotero to capture metadata on a
book/ work from IA, and then export commands from Zotero into
QuickStatements, which can be used to create (or update) the
equivalent Wikidata items. See:

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Zotero
Gerard Meijssen
2017-10-23 11:48:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hoi,
A Wikipedia matra is be bold and another is that things are a work in
progress. In my opinion, what we need is the name of a book, its author and
the fact that people can read it. All the other stuff like what "version"
is a particular book pales in comparison. We should not let the quest for
perfection be the enemy of the good.

Also Archive.org and Open Library are two different entities. Both the Open
Library and the Internet Archive have their own identifiers for authors and
they are not necessarily linked. We are talking about books from the Open
Library and they are available as an E-book or a PDF.

My problem is not with Open Library, my problem is that we do not know what
is available from Wikisource as a finished good ready for reading. In the
end what we advertise is the author the book, versions are secondary.
Thanks,
GerardM
Post by billinghurst
Hi Nicolas,
Still my biggest issues/hurdles for good data are
- capture of information from WS to WD — it just is hard work, WEF
tool is still not sufficiently aligned
- the ever problematic inability to link WP book to WS edition through
Wikidata
- that cannot capture information for Wikidata at archive.org, and
relate that through to the file at Commons, and then the edition at
Wikisource (or pick another starting point and interrelate0
- the inability to create an edition from a book/work, the inability
to create a work from an edition
Maybe you can even ask what we need to improve to get bots to run through
and autocapture, is our meta-data in headers not suitable? What is it that
is problematic?
Thanks for asking.
-- billinghurst (being so remote for the action <sigh>)
------ Original Message ------
To: "discussion list for Wikisource, the free library" <
Sent: 23/10/2017 7:30:44 PM
Subject: [Wikisource-l] WikidataCon 2017
Hi all,
For information, the WikidataCon is this week-end in Berlin. While there
is no talk nominatively around Wikisource, there is some intervention on
relation subjects (inventaire.io, WikiCite, German National Library,
FRBR, and so on).
The event is sold out, but you can follow remotely some of the
presentation (link will be added here : https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/
Wikidata:WikidataCon_2017/Program/Remote ).
I'll be there and I'll be happy to talk about Wikisource, who else will be
there?
Cdlt, ~nicolas
_______________________________________________
Wikisource-l mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Thomas Pellissier Tanon
2017-10-23 12:04:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi,

I am also going to be at Wikidata Con.

In the French Wikisource we started a Wikidata project. https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Aide:Wikidata We plan to do a small hackathon soon to start uploading our book data to Wikidata (I already have a prototype of tools that extract data from Wikisource to upload them to Wikidata but it still needs some work to do the job well).
Post by billinghurst
Still my biggest issues/hurdles for good data are
• capture of information from WS to WD — it just is hard work, WEF tool is still not sufficiently aligned
Yes, we need some specific tools.
Post by billinghurst
• the ever problematic inability to link WP book to WS edition through Wikidata
What we could do is use the new Wikisource MediaWiki extension to add a piece of code to add links to Wikipedia from Wikisource and to the other Wikisources. We could start prototyping it using lua modules.
Post by billinghurst
• that cannot capture information for Wikidata at archive.org, and relate that through to the file at Commons, and then the edition at Wikisource (or pick another starting point and interrelate0
In Wikidata you can point to the commons file and to IA [1]
Post by billinghurst
• the inability to create an edition from a book/work, the inability to create a work from an edition
Yes, we should create a UI on top of Wikidata to do such task.

Thomas

[1] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P724
Post by billinghurst
Hoi,
A Wikipedia matra is be bold and another is that things are a work in progress. In my opinion, what we need is the name of a book, its author and the fact that people can read it. All the other stuff like what "version" is a particular book pales in comparison. We should not let the quest for perfection be the enemy of the good.
Also Archive.org and Open Library are two different entities. Both the Open Library and the Internet Archive have their own identifiers for authors and they are not necessarily linked. We are talking about books from the Open Library and they are available as an E-book or a PDF.
My problem is not with Open Library, my problem is that we do not know what is available from Wikisource as a finished good ready for reading. In the end what we advertise is the author the book, versions are secondary.
Thanks,
GerardM
Hi Nicolas,
Still my biggest issues/hurdles for good data are
• capture of information from WS to WD — it just is hard work, WEF tool is still not sufficiently aligned
• the ever problematic inability to link WP book to WS edition through Wikidata
• that cannot capture information for Wikidata at archive.org, and relate that through to the file at Commons, and then the edition at Wikisource (or pick another starting point and interrelate0
• the inability to create an edition from a book/work, the inability to create a work from an edition
Maybe you can even ask what we need to improve to get bots to run through and autocapture, is our meta-data in headers not suitable? What is it that is problematic?
Thanks for asking.
-- billinghurst (being so remote for the action <sigh>)
------ Original Message ------
Sent: 23/10/2017 7:30:44 PM
Subject: [Wikisource-l] WikidataCon 2017
Post by Nicolas VIGNERON
Hi all,
For information, the WikidataCon is this week-end in Berlin. While there is no talk nominatively around Wikisource, there is some intervention on relation subjects (inventaire.io, WikiCite, German National Library, FRBR, and so on).
The event is sold out, but you can follow remotely some of the presentation (link will be added here : https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikidataCon_2017/Program/Remote ).
I'll be there and I'll be happy to talk about Wikisource, who else will be there?
Cdlt, ~nicolas
_______________________________________________
Wikisource-l mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
_______________________________________________
Wikisource-l mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Alex Brollo
2017-10-23 15:12:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Things about the issue work/edition are simpler for projects like
fr.source, bn.source and other projects with a very high proofread/total
ratio, since there's usually an unique Index page linked with an unique
Commons djvu/pdf page and very often an unique source of that image. Things
are much more confused with "naked" works. I suggest - for simplicity -
that by now any effort should be focused on proofread works/editions
ignoring the case of naked works.

I don't know in detail the work flow into de.source, German language being
a hard obstacle - what's a pity!

Alex

2017-10-23 14:04 GMT+02:00 Thomas Pellissier Tanon <
Post by Thomas Pellissier Tanon
Hi,
I am also going to be at Wikidata Con.
In the French Wikisource we started a Wikidata project.
https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Aide:Wikidata We plan to do a small
hackathon soon to start uploading our book data to Wikidata (I already have
a prototype of tools that extract data from Wikisource to upload them to
Wikidata but it still needs some work to do the job well).
Post by billinghurst
Still my biggest issues/hurdles for good data are
• capture of information from WS to WD — it just is hard work, WEF
tool is still not sufficiently aligned
Yes, we need some specific tools.
Post by billinghurst
• the ever problematic inability to link WP book to WS edition
through Wikidata
What we could do is use the new Wikisource MediaWiki extension to add a
piece of code to add links to Wikipedia from Wikisource and to the other
Wikisources. We could start prototyping it using lua modules.
Post by billinghurst
• that cannot capture information for Wikidata at archive.org,
and relate that through to the file at Commons, and then the edition at
Wikisource (or pick another starting point and interrelate0
In Wikidata you can point to the commons file and to IA [1]
Post by billinghurst
• the inability to create an edition from a book/work, the
inability to create a work from an edition
Yes, we should create a UI on top of Wikidata to do such task.
Thomas
[1] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P724
Post by billinghurst
Hoi,
A Wikipedia matra is be bold and another is that things are a work in
progress. In my opinion, what we need is the name of a book, its author and
the fact that people can read it. All the other stuff like what "version"
is a particular book pales in comparison. We should not let the quest for
perfection be the enemy of the good.
Post by billinghurst
Also Archive.org and Open Library are two different entities. Both the
Open Library and the Internet Archive have their own identifiers for
authors and they are not necessarily linked. We are talking about books
from the Open Library and they are available as an E-book or a PDF.
Post by billinghurst
My problem is not with Open Library, my problem is that we do not know
what is available from Wikisource as a finished good ready for reading. In
the end what we advertise is the author the book, versions are secondary.
Post by billinghurst
Thanks,
GerardM
Hi Nicolas,
Still my biggest issues/hurdles for good data are
• capture of information from WS to WD — it just is hard work, WEF
tool is still not sufficiently aligned
Post by billinghurst
• the ever problematic inability to link WP book to WS edition
through Wikidata
Post by billinghurst
• that cannot capture information for Wikidata at archive.org,
and relate that through to the file at Commons, and then the edition at
Wikisource (or pick another starting point and interrelate0
Post by billinghurst
• the inability to create an edition from a book/work, the
inability to create a work from an edition
Post by billinghurst
Maybe you can even ask what we need to improve to get bots to run
through and autocapture, is our meta-data in headers not suitable? What is
it that is problematic?
Post by billinghurst
Thanks for asking.
-- billinghurst (being so remote for the action <sigh>)
------ Original Message ------
To: "discussion list for Wikisource, the free library" <
Sent: 23/10/2017 7:30:44 PM
Subject: [Wikisource-l] WikidataCon 2017
Post by Nicolas VIGNERON
Hi all,
For information, the WikidataCon is this week-end in Berlin. While
there is no talk nominatively around Wikisource, there is some intervention
on relation subjects (inventaire.io, WikiCite, German National Library,
FRBR, and so on).
Post by billinghurst
Post by Nicolas VIGNERON
The event is sold out, but you can follow remotely some of the
presentation (link will be added here : https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/
Wikidata:WikidataCon_2017/Program/Remote ).
Post by billinghurst
Post by Nicolas VIGNERON
I'll be there and I'll be happy to talk about Wikisource, who else will
be there?
Post by billinghurst
Post by Nicolas VIGNERON
Cdlt, ~nicolas
_______________________________________________
Wikisource-l mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
_______________________________________________
Wikisource-l mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
_______________________________________________
Wikisource-l mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Loading...